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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 22, 2021 3:54:48 GMT
In all fairness, let me preface my comments by saying I only spent about 2 hours in the Orange Hall today (Thursday) from about 3-5pm. Our day got started much later than planned, and I promised my wife we'd first stop at one of our favorite "haunts" in Loganville, PA -- just south of York off I-83 BEFORE driving over to the train show. So I attended no member halls, and didn't even visit the Purple or Yellow halls... just the Orange Hall.
With that being said, the sight of empty booths in the Orange Hall was the first thing that hit me. And there were times you could have driven a Mack Truck down the aisles and not hit anyone. It seemed that empty -- which really surprised me, because the parking lot between the Orange Hall and the grandstand seem PACKED. So perhaps the crowd was otherwise dispersed in the different MEMBER halls. I can't say... but I can sure confirm the crowd was NOT in the Orange Hall during the two hours I strolled through it.
It's an impression I don't think I'll ever get over. I mean I knew Nicholas Smith Trains and Charles Ro Supply weren't gonna be there. And Trainworld cancelled just yesterday. But actually SEEING them not there is very different than just reading they weren't planning to attend. The empty feeling got progressively worse, when I noticed quite a handful of other booths toward the rear aisles of the Orange Hall with bare tables and no product. It was simply a foreign sight for my brain -- which since 1991 had been subconsciously programmed to see York dealer halls PACKED with dealers and train product. The contrast was staggering.
But like all things in life... we've gotta make the best of the situation at hand. And that's what I intended on doing.
The first booth I strolled through was East Coast Enterprises, headed by Rich Roman. These folks make some of the best bridges, piers, scale city buildings, elevated track structures, and catenary that you're gonna find in the hobby these days. They also fabricated several custom retaining walls for me a couple of years ago, and their work is top-notch all the way.
Next stop was Mr. Muffin's Trains. Didn't buy anything there this time, but I got a chance to see the SCALE-WHEELS version of MTH's 25th Anniversary BNSF ES44's. And boy did they look sweet with the fixed pilots. The ones I ordered came with the hi-rail wheels and regular knuckle couplers, but I could see where the scale-wheels versions of MTH's offerings could be very addictive.
Next was a pleasant stop at Stockyard Express, where I got a chance to speak with Clyde and Dianne. They have a bunch of MTH special-runs in the works, and Clyde showed me a binder with lots of illustrations of things coming down the pike. Gotta re-group with Clyde and Dianne when they get back to the store... so I can ensure they've got my name next to a handful of these special-runs that have been calling out to me.
Across from Stockyard Express was normally the big MTH booth... leading the way to the Charles Ro Supply booth. But alas... neither were present. So that was a real downer.
The Lionel booth was my next stop... and that was actually the closest thing to "normal" in the Orange Hall this time. Admittedly, their train layout was scaled down significantly. So I don't think they could demo any of the product that needs wide-radius curves. But at least they brought along a wall filled with product. And for a guy like me who always viewed York more as a "trade show" than a collector's "swap meet", Lionel didn't disappoint this time. Here are a few photos of some product that caught my eye....
First up is a simple gondola. But given all the supply chain issues in the news these days, I thought the "keep this car moving" sentiment was highly appropriate. So I plan to grab one of these gondolas!
I'm usually not a big fan of anniversary products, but the orange/blue color motif of this steamer (with matching caboose) up-close and in-person really caught my eye. Nicely done... and you can seldom go wrong with a VisionLine locomotive.
I've always been a NYC Pacemaker fan. So this "red train" led by a NYC Pacemaker Mohawk along with a string of matching Pacemaker red boxcars (not on display) seems like a natural -- albeit a fantasy scheme for the locomotive. But who cares!!!!
It's been a LONG time, since I've seen a 2-10-10-2 Vision Line steamer in person, so this looked REAL SWEET. The one I have my eye on for potential purchase though is the Valley Flyer version. So we shall see how that looks when it's delivered. Note the "availability date" of October 2021 on the accompanying card (lower left corner of the photo). I asked Ryan Kunkle which date was more accurate... October 2021 or the March 2022 date on the Charles Ro Supply website, and Ryan seemed to think these locomotives are "on the water". But then he spoke a bit cryptically by saying some product is on the water for 4 weeks, while other product is on the water for over 60 days. Given the nonsense going on with huge container ship backlogs, I'm not sure what to think. Nonetheless, Ryan thought this loco would arrive sooner rather than later. We shall see.
Lastly, THIS NEXT PRODUCT is actually why I enjoy York from the perspective of a "trade show" as opposed to a super swap meet. It's always nice to see a surprise announcement of something coming down the pike. And this announcement fit the bill for October 2021 York... namely, a VisionLine version of the N&W Class-A. I already have a N&W "J" as well as a N&W Y6b. So how can I not be in the market for a N&W Class A to round out the triumvirate? The question will be, "Which model?". According the Ryan Kunkle, the #1218 Excursion version in the photograph below will be produced with a high-gloss finish, while the other models (except for the pilot, of course) will have a flat black matte finish. I gotta admit, the high-gloss finish that was in a glass display case proved to be quite the eye-catcher for a steam locomotive!
After leaving Lionel's booth, my next stop was to check out the HUGE Standard Gauge modular layout that was set up in the general area where Atlas-O once held down the fort at many a York in years past. Gotta say... the Standard Gauge layout was VERY impressive!!!
Next stop was the LCCA's booth, where they had TONS of product... some scary high prices for banquet convention cars and such... but then they also had super prices on older goodies. I picked up an Angela Trotta House Flag for the Christmas Season (I think it's called "Santa's Finishing Touches") for just $12. And that was my token purchase for this year's York show.
My last two stops involved a quick stroll through Grzyboski Train's booth -- who I know I'll see again at Allentown ATMA next month -- and then a more leisurely visit to the Sidetrack Hobbies booth, which once again was heavy on tinplate offerings. I spoke with Libby Rudman at length... Al was scouting other halls when I stopped by. So I missed him. But it's clear to see why SideTrack Hobbies should be everyone's "go to" dealer for both O-Gauge and Standard Gauge tinplate.
So all in all, I made the 2-hour visit a worthwhile one. You've just gotta make the best of an ever-changing situation. If you plan on stopping by the Orange Hall on Friday or Saturday, be ready for a bit of a shocker when you first walk in, 'cause it's gonna look different. The winds of change will hit you hard. But then take a deep breath and persevere through the gut-punch to your stomach, so you can breathe easier and leave the Orange Hall on a pleasant note and perhaps even with a few goodies to bring home. Best of all, have fun!!!!
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Post by Adam on Oct 22, 2021 12:04:04 GMT
I can’t say I’m surprised. At least it’s happening, a step in the right direction.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 12:17:20 GMT
Thanks David. Not surprised.
Glad that Lionel made the effort. Hopefully not a conclusion but a new beginning.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 12:34:24 GMT
Without the shuttle bus we needed to move our car between the halls. Parking was full in many areas. But as noted the halls didn’t seem to reflect that level of attendance. Lots of pre and post war items, many with boxes. Sets too. Not as much MTH or Williams new or used. Lots of scenery type dealers missing. Didn’t see much MPC, or more recent sets. Fewer sitting areas and food vendors. Masks were less than 25%, some halls more than others.
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Post by Sir James on Oct 22, 2021 13:31:16 GMT
Sorry. I didn't read that long post so hope I'm not duplicating. I'm quite surprised at the small turnout of both dealers and sellers. After a year without York I expected lot's of activity. I would think the reason for no shuttle would be the closeness on the bus. Haven't seen much about goodies last night it's always fun to see what was bought.
To return I did read the report above, didn't have time earlier. Thank you for it. I do like the Pacemaker engine could've been a maybe but not at Lionel prices.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 13:34:11 GMT
David, excellent writeup. I felt like I was there. Sad to hear about the emptiness of the orange hall but then again might be fuller than most figured.
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Post by ptc on Oct 22, 2021 13:49:38 GMT
Excellence report, David. It is a sign of the times. Not sure we will see the good old days again at the York Meet. That is not to say that is is not worth attending for the members, the expectations just must be lowered.
I talked to one vendor who chose not to attend this Meet. He made the point that vendors make a huge investment and the York Meet no longer came close to offset his costs. He went on to say that even the spin-off sales after the Meet were no longer sufficient to write this off as advertising. I guess that's reality. Probably why many vendors no longer attend.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2021 14:21:02 GMT
It may very well be that York goes back to its roots as a meet for member-to-member trading, perhaps with fewer halls. The overhead for a dealer to go to York (travel, meals, lodging etc.) has to be outrageous, and if they don't at least break even, it's hard to justify the expense. When I started going to York in '79 there were 4 halls: Red, White, Blue and Yellow. There were some dealers / manufacturers there (Jerry Williams, Hudson Products etc. to name a few), but for the most part it was just member-to-member transactions.
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Post by fabforrest on Oct 22, 2021 22:11:06 GMT
Thanks David. Very comprehensive. Appreciated.
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Post by dlagrua on Oct 23, 2021 1:12:53 GMT
It may very well be that York goes back to its roots as a meet for member-to-member trading, perhaps with fewer halls. The overhead for a dealer to go to York (travel, meals, lodging etc.) has to be outrageous, and if they don't at least break even, it's hard to justify the expense. When I started going to York in '79 there were 4 halls: Red, White, Blue and Yellow. There were some dealers / manufacturers there (Jerry Williams, Hudson Products etc. to name a few), but for the most part it was just member-to-member transactions. Having not been to York in several years, we anticipated that things in the future would change. As a long time collector and model railroader after acquiring model trains for 40+ years and building my dream layout the needs/wants have dramatically changed. Alluding to the fact on expenses; it use to cost us around $400-$500 for lodging, food, refreshments, admissions, travel for two nights and two days to attend the meet. With rising costs that is probably closer to $650 today. Around 2015 the layout needs were just about filled so the expense didn't justify attending the meet to spend less than $50. We do miss the dinners and get- together's , still occasionally buy online, attend Allentown to browse and meet up with old friends. I am also a senior citizen now and would imagine that there may be other model railroaders in the same situation. It is reasonable to believe that the York meet will continue but as the song goes, the times they are a changing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2021 17:25:19 GMT
Thank you for the detailed report, David.
I made the decision earlier in the month that I would stay home because I was afraid I wasn't recovered enough from surgery and to help my wife with her mom. Lyinel and I texted back and forth yesterday, and I was counting on the shuttles if I had gone. I never needed them before, but like he, hoped to save some walking. Yes, Dennis, I'm another senior citizen now, as hard as it is to believe. Cost to make the trip and stay over night is definitely a factor. Add in the Turnpike toll. Even getting on at Bedford is still an added cost. As I read, America's first super highway is now the world's most expensive toll road per mile.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Oct 23, 2021 17:49:46 GMT
Thank you for the detailed report, David. .... Add in the Turnpike toll. Even getting on at Bedford is still an added cost. As I read, America's first super highway is now the world's most expensive toll road per mile. Funny how with EZ-Pass now, actual toll costs are now "hidden" unless we look online to see our activity. I wish that the system would send out a text message whenever we exit the turnpike, so we instantly know what's been charged. But they don't seem to want to implement that feature... at least as far as I can tell.
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Post by curtis on Oct 23, 2021 19:47:22 GMT
Went to York on Friday. See post about "Where were OGF Members". Yes, Orange hall was down, as were ALL THE HALLS. They seemed to space everyone wider apart. In October 2019 I attended in a wheel chair and was so frustrated by space restrictions, congestion and just plain fatigue. I only stayed half a day. This year, with a cane, was different but it also had advantages. Especially for NEW COMERS! Biggest disadvantage was no Shuttle as this year I needed it and would have used it unlike past years.
Also some dealers and manufacturers scaled their booths back. Missed some regulars like Scenery Express who always had a huge display and also did tutorials on scenery. People like Mr Muffin had scaled back booths. There were a couple new ones I had never seen before.
Lionel said the two big radius turn ends of their layout were damaged in transit and thus could not be added to the running layout. There was one shining moment with Lionel. I have been complaining and YES I SAID COMPLAINING, because Lionel in their almighty wisdom put out a camera in the THEATER Passenger car. Great! I wanted one. Been waiting for one. Bought the complete train so it would not look weird on a freight train. Installed the App on my ANDROID phone and it worked great. Then Lionel pulled the rug out. A real GOTCHA. They made the camera in a caboose. Really? I could have saved a couple thousand dollars. But I bought the caboose too. It also worked with my ANDROID TABLETS AND PHONE! Then I got new tablets and phones. NO APP AVAILABLE FOR ANDROID! THANK YOU SO MUCH LIONEL! One more thing to agitate me about ya. I headed straight to RYAN. Voiced my complaint, and I WAS NICE about it. He got someone else in on our conversation. After a brief discussion they announced it would be listed on THEIR WEBSITE, NOT in the Google App Store. SO, if this is true it just might get me off my disgust meds.
Membership halls seemed to be packed more than Dealer and Manufacturer halls. Overall, I thought it was great. Was it great for them? Having talked to a coupler Dealers it appears that they will make a profit albeit smaller than normal. Still for a First time back, I think we need to say at least a B+. It was nice getting back and seeing people and TRAINS again. Did I spend? Yep way too much. Did my nephew's son spend? YEP WAY MORE THAN ME and I was in well over a couple thousand!
Curtis
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Post by g3750 on Oct 23, 2021 21:44:05 GMT
Even though the meet was smaller, I did have a blast. I ran into a number of old friends and we spent some time catching up.
I found a couple of bargains (Weaver B60b) in the Yellow Hall, a building that I hadn't stepped into since the April 2003 meet (Pre Orange Hall)! RockyMountaineer was dead-on in his impression of the Orange Hall. I also spent some time chewing the fat with East Coast Enterprises / Custom Model Railroads. Based on my research, they built my Panhandle bridge and added it to their product line.
Purple Hall was spread out a bit more than usual (and more sparsely populated).
I focused my attention on the member halls and did find some bargains there as well. I picked up some building kits (DPM, Downtown Deco, older Chooch) in Silver. Bought some stuff for the grandson as we wandered the Red, Blue, and White halls.
It was great to be back at the York meet. The event may not be ready to run a marathon, but it's not on life support either. I think April 2022 will look much the same (mostly because April is the smaller show and we are seeing some downward economic issues), but October will be way better.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
George
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Post by JDaddy on Oct 23, 2021 22:49:24 GMT
Still on my travels back from York . Orange hall for products was a bust. Everything I found was in the other halls. Again spent way too much money. Amazing items were found everywhere. I ran out of money on day two. This York was fewer dealers and many more venders that were like you and I. This I absolutely relished. I lamented missing the OGF group photo. I bounced into Norm C. And many Detroit 3railers. And when I ran over from the White Hall at 12:20 … everyone was gone . I did note that all the good stuff seemed to be snapped up on Thursday within 3 hours. I will report more details later
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