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Post by david1 on Aug 28, 2024 1:49:33 GMT
I have had both TMCC/Legacy and dcs from the first time they each came out. My prior layout before I got too old and had to move was a two level layout and about 15x27' and rarely had a issue. I never followed the recommended practice of wiring a layout for command. But the one thing I did do was drops every 4 to 6'. I also used 14 GA stranded wire.
Now on my smaller layout which is about 14x 5 is wired the exact same way as my bigger layout with the same results, no issues what so ever with tmcc/legacy or dcs.
What I have seen from other layouts that had problems was sloppy wireing, track not put down firmly, too light wire gauge, too long wire runs 30' plus runs and loose wire connections.
Small or large layouts really does not matter, do it right the first time, be neat, correct size wire and go from there.
The above may not work for larger layouts like the hi railers in New Jersey and others.
Dave
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Post by curtis on Aug 29, 2024 20:34:44 GMT
I have both systems in use on my main layout and actually love both. I will admit that I have more problems with Legacy than MTH, but I did no run the extra ground plain wiring either. That to me just seems like a big turnoff for running trains, on different levels especially. What kind of problems are you having. I've run Legacy for years with no problems. Tracks that go over other tracks cause Legacy to not respond unless a ground plane is ran. Sometimes happens on tracks next to each other. I am NOT saying Legacy is terrible and not to use it, but I have more Legacy problems than DCS on any layout that is wired in star or buss.
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Post by ron045 on Aug 29, 2024 22:54:00 GMT
I have a 15x33 layout and use BUSS wiring. Heavy wire. 12G buss and 16G feeders every 4-6 feet. No problems with DCS. Now I have had problems with some PS2 and PS3 engines running on DCS. Which was my main driver to go deadrail.
Buying and installing DCS today would be like buying a VCR. Why would you do it?
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Post by dennym57 on Aug 30, 2024 1:20:57 GMT
What kind of problems are you having. I've run Legacy for years with no problems. Tracks that go over other tracks cause Legacy to not respond unless a ground plane is ran. Sometimes happens on tracks next to each other. I am NOT saying Legacy is terrible and not to use it, but I have more Legacy problems than DCS on any layout that is wired in star or buss. Yeah Legacy has problems like that. I don't have any elevated tracks, but I have ground planes all over the layout were tracks are close..
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Post by chipset35 on Aug 31, 2024 17:07:51 GMT
Where can MTH DCS be purchased these days other than existing stock, now that MTH is gone?
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Post by curtis on Sept 1, 2024 3:38:51 GMT
Where can MTH DCS be purchased these days other than existing stock, now that MTH is gone? First and foremost MTH IS NOT GONE. There are still some explorer's (DCS Command Controller) out there.
Second the new WTIU is on the dock waiting to ship. They should be here mid to end of October. Dealers will have them and MTH along with Atlas to sell. Third I am still seeing DCS Commanders for sale also.
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Post by chipset35 on Sept 8, 2024 12:37:36 GMT
Where can MTH DCS be purchased these days other than existing stock, now that MTH is gone? First and foremost MTH IS NOT GONE. There are still some explorer's (DCS Command Controller) out there.
Second the new WTIU is on the dock waiting to ship. They should be here mid to end of October. Dealers will have them and MTH along with Atlas to sell. Third I am still seeing DCS Commanders for sale also.
Good to know!
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Post by Traindiesel! on Sept 9, 2024 2:27:57 GMT
After reading and listening to all the advice for DCS wiring I was finally able to fine tune it to the point that DCS consistently worked well for me. By using some of the advice and implementing some simple changes I had a consistent signal strength on my previous 54’ X 32’ around the walls layout.Using Atlas O 20th Century Track system along with 16Ga wire from the track I initially used the recommended ‘star wiring’ method, which is bringing together all the power drops from the track to a central wire hub and connecting the hub to an output of the TIU. For me it failed miserably. For the size of the layout, I had about 16 wire drops converging to the wire hub for one loop of track. At the time I had seven other loops to wire which would have caused an unmanageable wire nest no matter how neat my wiring was. Also the DCS signal strength ranged from anemic to ‘No Engine on Track’. For my next trick I used 12Ga wire to run a bus wire around the perimeter of the layout, about a 150’ of wire. I connected both ends of the bus wire to the wire hub. Unfortunately I got the same results even after attaching an 18V bulb to the hub. I refused to give up. But it was time to bring in some help.Forum Member Shawn Chronister came over to run trains and troubleshoot my DCS wiring set up. After tinkering with the connections we got rid of the wire hub. He connected one end of the bus wire directly to a TIU output and left the other end of the bus unconnected. The 16Ga wire drops from the tracks were connected to the bus wire via Posi-Lock Connectors. After adding a single 18V bulb to the unconnected end of the bus we had SUCCESS! Perfect, consistent signal strength all around the track loop. The Input terminals on the TIU were connected to my MTH Z4000 transformers for each loop. A second TIU and Z4000s were used for subsequent track loops.Adding the Lionel Legacy system was easily done by running the wire from the Legacy base to a hub and adding a wire for each loop from its hub to the TIU Output for each loop. The DCS and Legacy command control systems worked well together with no issues.
For wiring to the track I spaced the drops about every ten track joints. Some connections were farther apart than others depending on individual track length sizes. I also wired all sides of the Atlas turnouts. In between the wire drops I placed an Atlas O plastic rail joint connector on the center rail to insulate it to contain the signal to that length of track as recommended. (It had been mentioned to me one time by the late Marty Fitzhenry, one of the DCS beta testers, that the center rails do not need to be insulated. I plan to try this on my current constantly under construction layout).
Your mileage may vary but by simply connecting a bus wire to a TIU output and connecting wire drops from the track to the bus and adding an 18V bulb to the other end provided a working solution for DCS command control.
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Post by superwarp1 on Sept 9, 2024 13:36:45 GMT
After reading and listening to all the advice for DCS wiring I was finally able to fine tune it to the point that DCS consistently worked well for me. By using some of the advice and implementing some simple changes I had a consistent signal strength on my previous 54’ X 32’ around the walls layout.Using Atlas O 20th Century Track system along with 16Ga wire from the track I initially used the recommended ‘star wiring’ method, which is bringing together all the power drops from the track to a central wire hub and connecting the hub to an output of the TIU. For me it failed miserably. For the size of the layout, I had about 16 wire drops converging to the wire hub for one loop of track. At the time I had seven other loops to wire which would have caused an unmanageable wire nest no matter how neat my wiring was. Also the DCS signal strength ranged from anemic to ‘No Engine on Track’. For my next trick I used 12Ga wire to run a bus wire around the perimeter of the layout, about a 150’ of wire. I connected both ends of the bus wire to the wire hub. Unfortunately I got the same results even after attaching an 18V bulb to the hub. I refused to give up. But it was time to bring in some help.Forum Member Shawn Chronister came over to run trains and troubleshoot my DCS wiring set up. After tinkering with the connections we got rid of the wire hub. He connected one end of the bus wire directly to a TIU output and left the other end of the bus unconnected. The 16Ga wire drops from the tracks were connected to the bus wire via Posi-Lock Connectors. After adding a single 18V bulb to the unconnected end of the bus we had SUCCESS! Perfect, consistent signal strength all around the track loop. The Input terminals on the TIU were connected to my MTH Z4000 transformers for each loop. A second TIU and Z4000s were used for subsequent track loops.Adding the Lionel Legacy system was easily done by running the wire from the Legacy base to a hub and adding a wire for each loop from its hub to the TIU Output for each loop. The DCS and Legacy command control systems worked well together with no issues.
For wiring to the track I spaced the drops about every ten track joints. Some connections were farther apart than others depending on individual track length sizes. I also wired all sides of the Atlas turnouts. In between the wire drops I placed an Atlas O plastic rail joint connector on the center rail to insulate it to contain the signal to that length of track as recommended. (It had been mentioned to me one time by the late Marty Fitzhenry, one of the DCS beta testers, that the center rails do not need to be insulated. I plan to try this on my current constantly under construction layout).
Your mileage may vary but by simply connecting a bus wire to a TIU output and connecting wire drops from the track to the bus and adding an 18V bulb to the other end provided a working solution for DCS command control. Sounds like s nice layout. Warning, do not use the 18v magic bulb trick if you have a Rev L TIU. It hurts more than it helps. All other revision TIU the bulb or the resistor/capacitor setup will help. Also as I stated before bus wiring is just find with the Rev L TIU. The new WTIU, who knows. With new parts replacing obsolete components could be a hole new ball of wax.
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na
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by na on Sept 11, 2024 2:59:23 GMT
I use both TMCC and DCS and had many more issues with TMCC early on than DCS. It took some tweaking, removing some Fluorescent lights to stabilize the signal, and several other growing pains to get TMCC to work reliably. If I were starting over with a new layout, I'd still wire with a star/homerun configuration. It takes more work & wire but I found I have fewer problems with voltage dips and it helped cure some mysterious signal issues I was having with TMCC when I rewired my layout from Buss to Star. I have been testing the CAB3 app at a friend's house and it's buggy, hopefully, Lionel gets that worked out soon. However, running legacy engines through MTH App works pretty well.
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