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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 7, 2024 12:54:18 GMT
A particular version of this engine has been tempting me for awhile, however I seem to recall some mechanical issues that have caused me to pause my purchase. The issues were the gearbox and perhaps derailing but I have not been able to find anything online. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments about the 2-8-0 2023 version's performance/problems/and even praise?
Thanks
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 7, 2024 14:27:21 GMT
A particular version of this engine has been tempting me for awhile, however I seem to recall some mechanical issues that have caused me to pause my purchase. The issues were the gearbox and perhaps derailing but I have not been able to find anything online. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments about the 2-8-0 2023 version's performance/problems/and even praise? Thanks With all of Lionel's issue with gear box. Why take the chance? I'd skip and go for the AtlasO 2-8-0 when it comes out. Weaver tooling, MTH DCS.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 7, 2024 15:40:35 GMT
A particular version of this engine has been tempting me for awhile, however I seem to recall some mechanical issues that have caused me to pause my purchase. The issues were the gearbox and perhaps derailing but I have not been able to find anything online. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments about the 2-8-0 2023 version's performance/problems/and even praise? Thanks With all of Lionel's issue with gear box. Why take the chance? I'd skip and go for the AtlasO 2-8-0 when it comes out. Weaver tooling, MTH DCS. Thanks. This is a custom run which complicates matters a bit.
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Post by trainman9 on Aug 7, 2024 16:20:29 GMT
A particular version of this engine has been tempting me for awhile, however I seem to recall some mechanical issues that have caused me to pause my purchase. The issues were the gearbox and perhaps derailing but I have not been able to find anything online. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments about the 2-8-0 2023 version's performance/problems/and even praise? Thanks
In a lengthy discussion with an individual that is a Lionel service center he was not interested in installing the shims but pointed out to me that if the gears were correctly pressed onto the gear shaft there should not be any problems with running these engines. He mentioned that just trying to remove the gear shaft to install the shims brings up the possibility of cracking the frame.
There was quite a bit of discussion on OGR and one individual did offer a solution albeit rather crude by shoving a shim angst the drive gear and attaching a screw to secure it. He was charging $200 for this service plus shipping both ways.
It has been pointed out that you would have to practically run the wheels off these engines before you would have a failure.
If you follow routine maintenance procedures including making sure you oil the idler gear, no information on this in the instruction manual, you should be Okay.
During one of our Zoom meetings I asked Charlie of Nassau Hobbies if he had heard of any issues and he said no.
Also, I’m not aware of any derailing issues. Although my current layout does not have any switches my prior layouts had quite a few and I never experienced any derailments.
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 7, 2024 18:00:54 GMT
A particular version of this engine has been tempting me for awhile, however I seem to recall some mechanical issues that have caused me to pause my purchase. The issues were the gearbox and perhaps derailing but I have not been able to find anything online. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments about the 2-8-0 2023 version's performance/problems/and even praise? Thanks
Sorry to say you are most incorrect about the H10. That individual is a good friend of mine. PAT AKA Harmond Yard came up with this fix to save the H10 from the trash heap, in no way is it crude but the only solution to a problem Lionel washed their hands of. Also he charges 100 not 200 as you stated and gives discounts for multiple engines. Pat has done much work for me over the years including the gear box fix from my Weaver pacific I'll link below.
While there hasn't been a engine with the issue the H10 has had since, the design by Lionel is flawed, and if the Chinese factory isn't careful pressing the gear on the axle, watch out, H10 all over again.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 7, 2024 22:11:25 GMT
By all accounts and in my communication with him, Harmon Yard Pat is a stand up guy. His shim solution struck me as expedient and effective as opposed to crude. That said, I am appreciative of all points of perspective on this question.
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 8, 2024 0:23:24 GMT
Talking to Pat today about this thread and trying to get him to sign up I ask him how many k4/H10 he has done. Pat stated well over hundred before he lost count. I also ask how many were due to right out broken and how many preventative. Pat stated 60% repair 40% just in case and he’s still getting them sent in.
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 8, 2024 0:29:55 GMT
My situation would be preventive, one consolidation and 2 K-4s all unrun. Pat's expertise would/should be welcome here IMO.
Last year I was hoping to meet up with him at York and hand the engines to him however a family conflict preempted his schedule.
Maybe this October will be the charm.
I will have to contact him.
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Post by trainman9 on Aug 8, 2024 12:27:01 GMT
Here is how it shud be done not just shoving a piece of metal into the gear box.
 
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Post by runamuckchuck on Aug 8, 2024 14:41:27 GMT
My understanding is that the shim approach was the least invasive, most effective/efficient way to address the problem. I have no preference as I likely do not have the skills or the tools to execute either solution.
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 8, 2024 14:55:09 GMT
Here is how it shud be done not just shoving a piece of metal into the gear box.
ok, your opinion but this is a direct quote from the man himself.
"The fix I designed especially for the Legacy K4, and other locomotives that potentially share this deficiency in the gear box is a non-invasive approach. The bar uses a half moon shaped bushing to ride against the idler, and keep the intermediate shaft gears center positioned so the worm gear on the motor doesn’t eat the side of the main worm wheel. My fix doesn’t require any wheel pulling, or pressing of the gears, which could result in disaster if not properly done. The bar stock is retained by a screw, and not just “shoved in” as some of you just assumed. Those that have assumed, I hope you know the meaning of the word. The bar stock is then cut at angles so it’s trapped by the forward wall & the motor mount itself preventing any shifting. If those of you want to pull wheels, pull gears apart and risk even further damage, have a ball, it’s your funeral. With well over 100 repairs under my belt, and everyone satisfied, I’ll keep on doing the non-invasive repair that has a proven track record in the field."
Now Pat has ask to become a member. I hope he's accepted.
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Post by JDaddy on Aug 8, 2024 15:58:45 GMT
IF you follow the Chronicles of Norm Charbonneau, he has noted there is an axle play forward to reward in these as well. This causes the worm gear and axel gear to bind due to their misalignment. Here is a great video that explains the fix which is quite easy for some... I have two but they do not exhibit the issue.  |
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Post by superwarp1 on Aug 8, 2024 16:37:41 GMT
IF you follow the Chronicles of Norm Charbonneau, he has noted there is an axle play forward to reward in these as well. This causes the worm gear and axel gear to bind due to their misalignment. Here is a great video that explains the fix which is quite easy for some... I have two but they do not exhibit the issue.
From Pat. I have no clue in the subject
"the engine that fella is mentioning about are the Legacy L1’s & I1’s ( PRR ) ……totally different locomotive, totally different build. Norm & I both diagnosed the L1 & I1 problems, and it was Norm that actually came up with the cleaner & nicer fix for those engines…….Norm designed a 3D printed motor shim to put between the motor & the motor mount to correct the drive gear misalignment. Totally different problem than the legacy K4/H10 issue …."
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Post by JDaddy on Aug 8, 2024 16:41:06 GMT
Gary, thank you for clarifying, it was my understanding the K4 exhibited both issues. I have 4 variants of the K4 but none of them have these issues.
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Post by JDaddy on Aug 8, 2024 16:56:58 GMT
Getting back the the 2-8-0, my colleague had issue with engine picking the points on a Ross switch then creating a short. He was able to remedy the problem by I believe adjusting the spring on the pilot trucks. I will confirm.
As far as any gear box issues similar to the K4 or L1 binding or misalignment there are no reported issues from our club and we have been running quite a few.
I was really close to purchasing the NKP version:
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