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Post by david1 on Jan 21, 2023 21:24:23 GMT
I have been watching some videos online about some guys walking away from Lionel. There is one guy especially that has very deep pockets and has bought many of the top of the line products. He is so frustrated with Lionels quality and lack of Customer service that he is giving up buying Lionel and he is now selling off his entire collection of Lionel. I believe he has only been collecting for the past 5-7 years but he bought alot of trains from Lionel. Apparently he still likes trains and he has moved on to MTH because of the few things he has bought has been defect free.
If this is any indication from one big dollar collector what does This say to many others who may have the same thoughts.
Dave
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Post by josef on Jan 21, 2023 23:15:13 GMT
Not a "Happy Camper".
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Post by david1 on Jan 21, 2023 23:30:33 GMT
Thanks Walt for posting video. This is only one of them,
Dave
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Post by Joe Saggese on Jan 22, 2023 0:26:28 GMT
My experience with NEW Lionel has been 50/50. Not good odds. I have been leaning towards Williams NOS lately.
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Post by keithl on Jan 22, 2023 1:06:38 GMT
If this is any indication from one big dollar collector what does This say to many others who may have the same thoughts. Dave Nothing. One big-time collector, even a few, doesn’t make a trend. FWIW, in my personal experience, I see more guys buying more high-end Lionel trains.
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Post by rockymountaineer on Jan 22, 2023 1:16:30 GMT
Interesting topic, Dave. And just for the record… I hadn’t seen ANY of these YouTube videos before posting what I did earlier today re: stepping away from big-ticket purchases.
I wouldn’t say I’m walking away from Lionel completely. But after browsing through their latest catalog recently, my short-list of 2023 pre-orders will just be a few pieces of rolling stock. And my only Lionel 2022 big-ticket, pre-order carry-over into 2023 for delivery delivery is a green Legacy B&A Berkshire, which is a special-run from Mr. Muffins Trains last year.
NONE of Steve’s recently announced 2023 special-runs are calling my name. And with a minimum Lionel commitment of 40 units per SKU, Steve feels 20 customer pre-orders is his “magic number” to feel comfortable moving forward with a given special-run offering. Frankly, I think even 20 is too low a number in this marketplace.
We shall see. But I don’t think 2023 big-ticket special-runs will be as big a hit as they were in 2022. Rolling stock? Yes. But not locomotives or premium-priced train sets..
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Post by edlloyd on Jan 22, 2023 1:20:32 GMT
I have talked with a few big players in the business and I am concerned. Believe it or not but the industry is going through tough times right now. Could be a number of causes. What nobody knows is the long term outcome. Only time will tell.
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Post by madockawando on Jan 22, 2023 1:34:57 GMT
In any sufficiently large population, in this case, O gauge train hobbyists, you can also find a few people to suppo what ever axe you need to be ground.
A few YouTube videos hardly indicate a stampede to the exit. I think the fact that Lionel has yet again just issued a robust catalog with lots of great trains is a better indicator of the overall strength of Lionel and of the hobby as a whole. Both are doing well IMO as well as MTH with their new found low run uncatalogued custom runs market strategy.
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Post by atsda on Jan 22, 2023 2:48:24 GMT
I can't comment on the modern Lionel equipment b/c I don't have any or have purchased trains from them since the 1960's. But ... I had a question about the lights and wiring used in the Lionel Covered Bridge (received as a present in assembled form), so I called Lionel Technical Support. On two consecutive days, there was no wait time, and the two ladies who responded were very polite and patient during the calls as I asked them to describe the installation instructions, light type, and wiring. Although I did not get all of the info I needed, I was none the less pleased with the service. Alfred
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Post by Traindiesel! on Jan 22, 2023 3:15:12 GMT
……A few YouTube videos hardly indicate a stampede to the exit. I think the fact that Lionel has yet again just issued a robust catalog with lots of great trains is a better indicator of the overall strength of Lionel and of the hobby as a whole. Both are doing well IMO as well as MTH with their new found low run uncatalogued custom runs market strategy. I tend to agree with this. Everyone has their own situation and level of interest or participation in the hobby. Some can’t or won’t pay the prices or some have a lot of trains already. But hobby forums are a small sample size and not all hobbyists watch YouTube or read train forums. I have a few friends and relatives that are model railroaders that don’t bother with the internet. I’m sure there are tens of thousands of hobbyists that don’t either. And then there are people who may be excited about starting in model trains and don’t know any better about past pricing of trains. There are probably a bunch of people buying enthusiastically. With Lionel, MTH, Atlas O, Williams, 3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot still pumping out products at varying rates, the hobby looks strong to me. It’s certainly better than in the 1970’s and 1980’s. If things aren’t going well with all the importers it will all certainly come out in the wash. Like with K-Line, Weaver and a few smaller companies. GO EAGLES!!!
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Post by thebigcrabcake on Jan 22, 2023 4:23:19 GMT
3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot are looking like a much more reasonable alternative to Lionel. The prices are much closer now and 3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot quality is outstanding.
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Post by phil55 on Jan 22, 2023 4:25:10 GMT
I didn't walk away from Lionel. They walked away from me.
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Post by madockawando on Jan 22, 2023 10:10:18 GMT
I didn't walk away from Lionel. They walked away from me. Where did they go?
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Post by madockawando on Jan 22, 2023 10:12:14 GMT
3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot are looking like a much more reasonable alternative to Lionel. The prices are much closer now and 3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot quality is outstanding. I have heard of 3RD Rail but not Golden Gate Depot. Do they offer rolling stock or just limited run locomotives?
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Post by harborbelt70 on Jan 22, 2023 14:01:01 GMT
3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot are looking like a much more reasonable alternative to Lionel. The prices are much closer now and 3Rd Rail and Golden Gate Depot quality is outstanding. I have heard of 3RD Rail but not Golden Gate Depot. Do they offer rolling stock or just limited run locomotives? You would do well to expand your interest to include GGD. They are the same importer as 3rd Rail but the focus is on scale passenger and freight cars plus some other scale things. The combined enterprise now includes ERR for TMCC control/sound boards that Lionel unaccountably wanted to ditch/abandon.
As Emile/BCC says the price gap between 3rd Rail/GGD and Lionel has all but disappeared although (1) the former’s focus is on full O scale models and (2) it’s true quality stuff. Downside is the prices of some of the passenger cars are such that full sets are way beyond an average enthusiast’s budget. I have some that I sourced in the secondary market.
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