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Post by seeseerider on Oct 5, 2022 18:53:39 GMT
Hi All,
I’ve acquired a 2nd hand Lionel E6 AA set (6-84658).
The lead unit with sound runs perfect, however the other powered unit has some kind of issue. It powers up normal, then when I apply the throttle (any amount tiny or large) the engine proceeds to move and accelerate dramatically. When I then quickly kill the throttle it stops fast and the notorious cab light blinking starts - I think it’s the single flash indicating a motor stall. After resetting the same thing happens again when applying throttle. I’ve tried redoing to the ID assign on the Cab2 but no luck.
Any thoughts? I’m in UK so not worth sending to US for fixing. Anything I can do or is it hopeless?
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Post by david1 on Oct 5, 2022 21:17:21 GMT
I would program both units with the same number and see how it runs.
Dave
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Post by redjimmy1955 on Oct 5, 2022 21:36:39 GMT
Ditto...my thoughts exactly.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 5, 2022 22:15:37 GMT
I agree with the above recommendation because if this model was made at the time I think it was (2017), Lionel A-A sets were meant to be programmed with the same ID (and by default the rear unit ran in reverse/same direction as leading unit). Using separate IDs is possible but not necessary - I avoid it for fear of messing up the built-in synch between the units.
That said, the described erratic behavior of the trailing unit coupled with the main motor stall cab blinks sounds to me like a board/motor control issue that may not be cured by using the factory same ID setting. Swapping out the relevant board for a functioning one would not be a huge exercise. However, I am not sure which set this is and what the parts availability is because the SKU given (6-84658) does not match any E6 A-A set I could find from before Lionel dropped the 6- prefix and went over to its current numbering system. The last 6-846 prefix E6 sets I can find are from 2017/18.
P.S. It’s not unknown for people to try to set up a trailing unit to run on its own and things like speed steps and momentum settings can get accidentally altered that way. If the units have different IDs and maybe were part of a lash-up/train rather than just using their stock configuration might be best to delete them in the CAB2 and start from scratch in terms of a single ID. Also, do these engines have Bluetooth and run OK under that? If you don’t use Bluetooth might be an idea to turn it off at the manual switch such engines have.
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Post by seeseerider on Oct 5, 2022 22:33:41 GMT
Hi guys - thank you for your responses.
The product number I gave is indeed on the box of the trailing unit - however checking online I can see the combined set has this number: 6-84656. It’s from 2017 and is the L&N early blue and cream paint scheme.
Yeah I do usually assign different IDs to my AA sets and then run them as a combined train. I didn’t know that at this time I’m 2017 they were designed to be on the same ID. I’ll certainly try that. But I personally am worried it’s a kind of motor tach sensor issue. It’s like the control system has no sense of the motor speed and so let’s it go faster and faster. Like a real engine without a governor limiting the rpm.
If the right part is available I would be willing to try installing it myself.
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Post by seeseerider on Oct 5, 2022 22:36:11 GMT
Also, do these engines have Bluetooth and run OK under that?
….yes they do have Bluetooth. I haven’t tried it yet - I will and let you know. |
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 5, 2022 22:56:47 GMT
Have you checked the manual switch settings and/or opened the engine up to see whether there are any pinched/broken/unattached wires? Anyway try resetting the IDs first. Lionel Support shows an RCMD board for this powered E6 unit but there does not seem to be any distinction between the lead and trailing units: www.lionelsupport.com/L-N-E6-POWER-A-755-6-84658
If resetting the IDs doesn’t work I think I’d try asking Lionel if the RCMD could be faulty - they do mostly answer specific email technical queries through the email facility of TalkToUs@lionel.com - or have done for me in the past.
P.P.S. I’m not sure if you tried running this set with whatever ID(s) the previous owner used before setting it up with the IDs you are using. I’ve learned not to change settings before testing whether the existing ones work!
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Post by JKP on Oct 6, 2022 0:41:20 GMT
I think your RCMD board is faulty. I had to to replace a RCMD board on a Alco AA unit set. The boards were different for each unit. The set was sold under one SKU number but each engine has its own SKU number and that was how I found the correct board # on Lionels site.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 6, 2022 7:37:09 GMT
I think your RCMD board is faulty. I had to to replace a RCMD board on a Alco AA unit set. The boards were different for each unit. The set was sold under one SKU number but each engine has its own SKU number and that was how I found the correct board # on Lionels site.
I just noticed that the forward unit #754 under SKU 6-84657 has its own parts page and the RCMD is a different number although the parts diagrams use the same illustration in both cases: www.lionelsupport.com/L-N-E6-POWER-A-754-6-84657. I assume that the real difference between the two boards is in the programming.
If you open the trailing unit a board number should be printed on it but check with Lionel anyway.
If you are in Britain I could help get the board to you later this year if Lionel can’t/won’t ship there. DM me if that turns out to be the case, but I hope changing the IDs works.
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Post by seeseerider on Oct 7, 2022 21:06:40 GMT
Hi guys. right, here is an update. I’ve heard back from Lionel and I’ve got the shell off. The motors and flywheel and tach sensor etc all appear nice and tidy. See photos. The one suspicious out of place thing visually is the Antenna attached to the roof of the shell - it has two grey wires attached - one is soldered to the metal panel but the other is just loose and hanging out in the open - if that bare wire was touching something else what could that do? Do you know what the second wire should connect to? I’ve shown it in the photos. message from Lionel was that it sounds like faulty FETS on the RCMD or possibly debris on the motor flywheel. They’ve asked me to check for shorts on the FETS and the ‘gate’… I must admit that’s all way beyond my skills and toolset. if those trucks and motors were not looking like such a puzzle to deconstruct I’d be just taking the motors out and let it roll as a dummy. I don’t think it’s worth the cost of importing a new RCMD board assuming that really would fix it. I paid the same amount for the whole trailing unit .  |
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Post by seeseerider on Oct 7, 2022 21:10:23 GMT
If you are in Britain I could help get the board to you later this year if Lionel can’t/won’t ship there. DM me if that turns out to be the case, but I hope changing the IDs works.you are very kind Sir! I’m not quite ready to order new parts yet though. tried the Bluetooth too by the way - the leading unit works fine again - but with just the trailing unit on the track no Bluetooth signal is picked up by the LionChief app. I’m not sure how Bluetooth works with an AA set.
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Post by harborbelt70 on Oct 7, 2022 23:08:00 GMT
I don’t think that there should be two wires attached to the antenna. Does the wire that is not soldered to it look broken/pinched at the end? What does the other end lead to? I’m only guessing but in that location it might be a connection between a board and the switches mounted near the engine’s roof. If so, or depending on where the intact end of the wire leads to, that could be your motor problem right there - another instance of poor assembly.
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