|
|
Post by 4dogsinjersey on Jul 9, 2020 1:54:12 GMT
I am working on a K-Line EP5. The cruise control was not working, so I am working on installing a Electric Railroad modular cruise control.
I read the instructions a few times over but I am not sure what I am doing, replacing wires in connectors and such. There is decent diagrams of the ERR board but I can’t find any schematics for the K-Line engine.
I am down to three wires in one connector. One wire runs from the R2LC and has been relocated to pin 24 on the cruise board. That I figured out. I am left with two last wires that emanate from two locations. I can’t tell what they are for, or where to run them to on the cruise board.
I am not too fluent with electronics, so any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tom
|
|
|
|
Post by josef on Jul 9, 2020 10:06:05 GMT
Its early and wife is asleep still, so I can't get to my manual and ERR diagrams I have in folder. But here's a video from Youtube that maybe of help. ERR Boards are really easy to install, I've done 7 now. If you have problems, I would gladly help if you wish to send engine and I'll install for just postage cost.
|
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 9, 2020 10:32:14 GMT
Is this a Cruise Commander M you are installing? I had a look at the manual on 3rd Rail’s site and the only 3 pin connector referenced in that is for the original tach reader wiring that is not required with the M board. I’ve always found it a little counter-intuitive but the ERR boards use a different method of reading the motor from older TMCC installations such as the K-Line versions. Thus there are some original wires that are surplus to requirements but I am not sure if you are referring to original wires or those supplied with the ERR kit.
The M board is supposed to be pretty much a drop-in installation. Curiously just a day ago there was a thread on this exact engine on the OGR Forum that has been deleted. I won’t read anything into that.
|
|
|
|
Post by 4dogsinjersey on Jul 9, 2020 14:10:22 GMT
Thanks you Josef. That is very generous of you. A definite avenue to take if I can’t figure this out. Yes, the Cruise Commander M. The pin with wires is a four wire connection with three wires. They are original to the engine. I removed the tac harness, so it isn’t that. One is the connection for the R2LC board. The other two are undetermined. I guess to figure them out, I need to remove portions of the mother board and see what they are labeled. I am not electronically adept, so this is out of my ballpark. I will go back in and trace the wires. The “drop in” conversion doesn’t seem to be that with older K-Line stuff. The person who recommended it doesn’t seem to want to help too much. The thread on the other forum was deleted due to lack of response... Tom  |
|
|
|
Post by dennym57 on Jul 9, 2020 14:49:16 GMT
Just a thought. I've installed it three of my engines. Cruise control won't work with older motors such as Pulmore. Mine were Williams and Williams by Bachmann.
|
|
|
|
Post by JDaddy on Jul 9, 2020 15:28:08 GMT
I had the same issue with my K-line scale K4 when the cruise board went up in smoke. The ERR board conversion is not a drop in replacement. I sent my engine to Royz Trainz. Great person, and very knowledgeable. He is the sole ERR technician for 3RD rail sunset models for Scott. Roy and I went over the procedure to find the least cost upgrade route. You may want to contact him for further information.
royztrains.com/
|
|
|
|
Post by 4dogsinjersey on Jul 9, 2020 15:46:35 GMT
Thanks Denny. It has the new motors. I have it running fine in conventional, but the TMCC is spotty. No sound either...
John, you said it. I have the board installed enough to get functions to work, but those extra wires seem to be playing a role in the poor operation in TMCC. Thanks for the link. Another consideration....
Tom
|
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 9, 2020 16:03:33 GMT
What did this connect to via the plug in the original setup? It's obviously one serial wire, one that looks like ground (if it's black) and one that I can't make out other than it's white:  I wonder if it's a Run/Program switch connection. |
|
|
|
Post by Yellowstone Special on Jul 9, 2020 17:47:20 GMT
Good luck with the conversion, Tom. That stuff is too advanced for my technical ineptness. So I just send my stuff up to Lionel/MTH certified tech. Jim Sandman in Ogden, who is also a forum member and he does a great job. I wanted to let you know that I added another paragraph to my response to your post in the What Have You Added To Your Collection Lately? thread, five hours later. Don't know if you've read the addition. But turns out your NYSW ALCO C420 had black trucks. But I think the silver ones look awesome.  |
|
|
|
Post by 4dogsinjersey on Jul 9, 2020 18:12:22 GMT
Thanks Vern. My electric experience is limited to installing BCRs and YLBs! I will look at the updated post. Black trucks would look better... Here is a pic of where the two left over wires terminate at the mother board. I am not sure what the printed codes on the pc board translate into...it is the purple wire and white wire in the center of the pic, going to two different plugs in the motherboard...  |
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 9, 2020 19:42:40 GMT
Here is a pic of where the two left over wires terminate at the mother board. I am not sure what the printed codes on the pc board translate into...it is the purple wire and white wire in the center of the pic, going to two different plugs in the motherboard... Sorry, I was asking what component in the original setup the 3 wire connector plugged into, not where the wires lead back to the motherboard. Was it the R2LC radio board or something else? I'm now confused anyway because (1) I would have thought that the purple wire was serial data rather than the black or white wires and (2) I can't read the pin designations on the board. The part number of that board is 691 PCB1 072, which is listed at Lionel parts as a Fairbanks Morse motherboard: www.lionelsupport.com/ReplacementParts/index.cfm?setID=&productID=&doAction=partFilter&q=691PCB1072&match=0At this point I had better not guess because ERR boards are prone to blow if anything is not connected up right! You might well be better off not guessing yourself unless someone here recognizes that K-Line configuration.
|
|
|
|
Post by 4dogsinjersey on Jul 9, 2020 20:03:56 GMT
 It was plugged into the old k-Line cruise board....the four prong plug at the top...
|
|
|
|
Post by JDaddy on Jul 9, 2020 20:11:58 GMT
I was told that the K line R2 boards are not compatible with the ERR cruise board, and that the R2 board would have to be replaced as well.
Not sure but it is a question that I would ask Roy from Royz trains, and at that point you may as well get a reader board with tach tape at the flywheel.
|
|
|
|
Post by harborbelt70 on Jul 9, 2020 23:10:59 GMT
I was told that the K line R2 boards are not compatible with the ERR cruise board, and that the R2 board would have to be replaced as well.
Not sure but it is a question that I would ask Roy from Royz trains, and at that point you may as well get a reader board with tach tape at the flywheel.
Sorry, I really can't work out from the CCM manual what the connection illustrated in the earlier posting above is, except that (1) the board is indeed the old K-Line MDK-90 Ver. D cruise board and (2) the Lionel R2LC radio board is not included with the CCM kit. However that radio board is still available from TrainDoctor.com and other sources, if not also Lionel, assuming that the original K-Line radio board is not compatible with ERR. (I have also seen references to that.) The original K-Line cruise board, which did use a tach reader, is also still available (TrainDoctor.com has them) but by all accounts these were erratic in operation. The tach reader should look like this and I assume that you have taken this part off:  The ERR method of motor sensing is an improvement on this older technology but trying to install it in an early TMCC engine is obviously not as simple as advertised. At this point it is not worth guessing and going to an experienced installer who may have encountered this particular combination of parts before is probably a better bet.
|
|
|
|
Post by 4dogsinjersey on Jul 9, 2020 23:23:29 GMT
Yeah, I agree with that. I jumped into this figuring it was a fairly simple installation. I wouldn’t mind farming it out to a friend here but I am afraid there may be more issues than what are on the surface. and that may be more than they wanted to handle. I don’t know.
I searched the internet figuring someone must have done work on a K-Line engine like this, but I can’t find anything. I have quite a few K-Line engines, steam, diesel and electric. This situation has me rethinking my investment in K-Line engines. It’s too bad. They made some nice looking stuff.
Tom
|
|
