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Post by josef on Jun 29, 2020 10:41:18 GMT
How do you or have planned your layout with trackage and then scenery, (buildings, industries, etc.), or do you plan your scenery and then trackage? How important is scenery to your layout or are the amount of trackage more important?
Reason I'm asking is trying to design a new layout.
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Post by ptc on Jun 29, 2020 19:51:10 GMT
I think that planning is an essential ingredient, particularly if you are building an extensive layout. With our latest layout, I started with a 3 ft. by 2 ft. piece of foam board. I scaled the planned benchwork, drew the track plan, and then added the accessories. This was so important for the CIC side of the layout as the GCT takes up a lot of real estate. My plan let me consider all of the options before the tools came out.
The result, we closely stuck to the plan and the results were better than expected.
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Post by JDaddy on Jun 29, 2020 20:05:33 GMT
I make a list of needs and wants. Needs are must haves for the layout. Wants are it would be nice, but may not have the room.
Needs:
Ergonomics- with a double decker layout the maximum I could come out from the wall is 26 inches. and each level height had to be determined for reach zones, visability, track and train access. It was difficult to envision how each train would traverse in a folded dog bone style layout and keep the isle width big enough for rolling desk chairs to work on the layout. Hieght from a desk chair was about 25 inches. the lower deck viewing height seemed to be about the same 26 inches. That leaves about 53 inches for the upper deck ( inluding lighting and wiring). I call that the critical package section of the layout design. A must have.
Minimum radius... I should have gone with 110. The lower deck has a min of 072, and it is just to sharp of a radii. But my basement was just not big enough. Track is key here. Sectional track or flex track? Flex track may give you that more natural look and feel as the train traverses through your layout. I mixed it up with Altas and gargrave.
Operation and staging- I love to run 25-to 30 car freight trains. Thats over 30ft of train! You have to passing sidings long enough, switches that are O100 and lots of staging. Thats why I chose a folded dog bone type layout as well. most of my wall space is used for locomotives that are ready to run on shelves... freight and passenger cars are in tupaware bins for a quick on and off loading as well.
Yards for switching : I like being able to make up a train and staging cars for road engines was a must. Switch puzzles will keep you busy for hours, while the trains circle the layout.
Lighting and circuits : at a minimum divide your room up into 3 circuits so you can work on the power and have another section turned off. I have 4. two for overhead lighting and the other tow for the wall plugs. I like track lighting becuase of it versatility and I created soffits to hide the tracks. Drop Cielings were a must for acess while covering all the necessary over head wires. Add dimmer switches. And GFI outlets.
PLan for Passenger service - this creates a whole new operation with a passenger train that always has the right of way... and at high speed too. I tried to plan out strategic passenger stations with a siding for passing. Long straight aways were a must.
Scenery: With a double decker layout - ceiling to floor scenery was a must. I had to plan out how the lighting on the lower deck not enter the scene, and how a shadow box layout would look as trains entered and exited the scene. I like western scenery, so lots of rock faces and mountains seemed to fit right in. A view block was must so the trains literally travers around a mountain. remember to have scenery above and below the rails! This gives a much more dramatic affect.
Theme: I picked a time and location. mid 50s, North West USA ... somewhere in Montana or Wyoming. Lots of possibilities here... steam, electric, diesel... and I can run the NP, UP, GN, Milwaukee, Burlington, SP&S, SP, WP etc... and yet you will also see the NYC and the PRR on the layout too.
Sounds and the layout room: This may sound redundant, but too much noise will give everyone a headache. Plan for sound deadening on the layout, carpet over the wood floors, cover that bare plywood on the top and bottom. Have a seating area for non operators to talk and eat snacks. I have a TV for train videos or movies too. Ventalation is important too. Things can get out of hand quick with a few MTH engines smoking up the place. The more friendly you make the room, the more visitors and operators feel welcomed.
Command Control : This was a must via MTH DCS and Lionel Legacy operating flawlessly together. This require unique wiring and planing for base location and remote line of sight.
Wants:
Engine facilities: turntables, roundhouse, coaling towers, etc. I wanted for the layout but alas I have not found room yet
From Town to Town: I was able to create a feel that trains travel from station to station, however I only have 3.
Industries : I was not able to include mines, factories, and spurs to serve customers, so I elected for more of a pass through frieght operation. most hints of industries are 2D on a back drop.
Dispatching : Our club is more of casual get together, so I elected to have more loops of track to minimize the non watching of trains thus resulting into a train wreck... no waybills, or switch list... just sitting back and watching the trains roll
Theatrics: maybe at a later time, but I wanted theater dimming lights automatically, some animations and back ground sounds... this will be at a later time.
These are just some thoughts, hopefully it will help you generate a list of Needs vs. Wants...
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Post by Country Joe on Jun 29, 2020 21:40:36 GMT
In the past I have often adapted a plan I found in a book or magazine. I found a layout that would fit my space and had features I liked and either built it as shown or modified it to better meet my needs. My current layout is completely original. I didn't copy or adapt anyone's plan.
I used track planning software for my last few layouts. I've had a Mac Book Pro for 6 years and used Railmodeller Pro to design the track for my current layout. The program is very accurate so I knew that the track configuration I wanted would work in the space I had. When I had a Windows computer I used SCARM which used to be free. I designed 2 N scale layouts and my 6x9 O Gauge layout with the free version of SCARM.
Even though my layout is more toy train than super realistic model railroad scenery is very important to me. I prefer less track and more scenery. Since I don't cram a lot of track in there is plenty of room for buildings and other scenic items so I don't include them in the plan.
I always plan track first and make the scenery fit the available space but it's not a problem since I don't fill my space with trackwork. I don't know if my way of planning a new layout is good for everyone but it works for me.
I hope this is helpful.
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Post by Yellowstone Special on Jun 29, 2020 22:48:48 GMT
Mine’s just a small, simple layout and since I knew in my head what I wanted it to look like, I didn’t need a computer program for the track plan. Since it’s a permanent winter-themed layout, the track was laid first, then the buildings, scenery, and snow. Not exactly rocket science, but it’s fun and has endured for 8 years now.
IMHO, no O scale layout should be mostly track, just because the operator has an insatiable appetite for more trains and wants to saturate the layout with them. Nor should the trains be obscured and eclipsed by too many buildings, streets, or lights. Trains are the reason it was built in the first place and they should be the focal point and main attraction of the layout.
The best layouts I’ve seen are those with the right balance of scenery, buildings, and trains. But this not easy to achieve with the larger O scale, unless you have acres of real estate. 😉
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Post by Joe Saggese on Jun 30, 2020 0:30:28 GMT
I just went off the top of my head. Really no rhyme or reason to what im doing. Just having fun.
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Post by dennym57 on Jun 30, 2020 7:09:31 GMT
I just went off the top of my head. Really no rhyme or reason to what im doing. Just having fun. I do that too, but I have a definite vision of what I'm going to do and then I do it.
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Post by Adam on Jun 30, 2020 12:13:50 GMT
For the current layout, my approach has been much like Denny and Joe, very adhoc and flying by the seat of my pants.
For the next layout, I do intend to do more planning as it will be significantly larger. That's about 8 years away (post kids college years) though. Lots of time to plan.
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Post by Sir James on Jun 30, 2020 13:38:23 GMT
I always liked drawing layouts freehand on paper. Once decided track was laid adjusted to fit. I must have done OK as they always came out as planned. I have absolutely no talent for doing scenery so track was most important to me.
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Post by laz57 on Jun 30, 2020 21:04:06 GMT
Made bench work to fit into my area and have access to furnace, water etc. Then laid track and ran trains to make sure of clearances are ok. Ran for about a week or so the started on structures and such.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2020 22:12:49 GMT
One piece of 4X8, add two more and extend the track, add 3 more and extend the track, add 3 more and extend the track. Not completely true but close.
My layout has had 4 overhauls. Literally started with one 4X8 for Christmas in 2007. That became a horse shoe and I had a track vision for the 3 pieces of ply. My lovely wife said it was too small so, the next step was adding a long siding to enclose the horse shoe and widening the horse shoe. Now we are up to 6 pieces. The last overhall was to build a second level for the Banff hotel which created a very large dogbone. And we are up to 9 pieces of ply.
I could mentally see what I wanted to accomplish with the track plan and was able to turn it into a very active layout with staging yards, freight yards, passenger yards, engine yards, long runs, a dogbone, passing runs, 6 sidings, 43 switches and 2 scale miles of track.
The best advice I can give is to visit layouts, make friends with smart modelers, ask for help and join a forum.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 16:26:22 GMT
My current build is built to the room available in the traincave and giving easy access on all sides. I drew up a rough draft which helped with the two main loops. The rest has been trail and error. Still debating on a third loop. Bridges are one thing I did enjoy on my last layout. So far on the new build there are zero.
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Post by Yellowstone Special on Jul 1, 2020 17:09:59 GMT
My current build is built to the room available in the traincave and giving easy access on all sides. I drew up a rough draft which helped with the two main loops. The rest has been trail and error. Still debating on a third loop. Bridges are one thing I did enjoy on my last layout. So far on the new build there are zero. Let's see now, would your "traincave" be adjacent to your "mancave?" Mine had an elevated third loop for about a year. But I ended up taking it down, because that third train running around along with the other two, made it almost impossible to carry on a conversation with visitors due to all the noise. But my layout is only 88 sq. ft. and I'm assuming that yours would be much larger to accommodate 3 trains without a major noise problem. On second thought, I'm hoping I didn't offend anyone with my previous post in this thread regarding balance on a layout. It is "IMHO" and that's what I like and is strictly from my perspective. I know that we have forum members with lots of trains on their layouts and some with lots of buildings, streets, and lights on their layouts. And that's fine. It's all about having fun with the hobby. 😉
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Post by JKP on Jul 1, 2020 21:35:29 GMT
Great thread, Yellowstone I don't think anyone is offended. I like the different views on this thread. JDaddy posted a lot to think about. I plan on a new layout at some point, Wood had some great advice. I've already changed in my mind how I would like to build a new layout a few times - just from seeing what other members are doing. So keep posting and if you haven't posted on the forum or joined the OGF - what are you waiting for
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Post by jimk on Jul 2, 2020 1:04:39 GMT
I have always loved looking at track plans. Just love to do that. So I had several Kalmbach track plan books to study over the years and when I admitted "failure to complete" on my HO layout and tore it down I got those old magazines and books out and looked again. Then I saw an article in CTT that was working with a Lionel layout from the 50's. I looked at that one in detail and said: this will keep me happy. And it has. It just barely fit in the space I have. So the plan was set but how to place scenery and buildings was just a slow working of things. Built my first Lionel building kit and some AHM row houses and played with them. My daughter got me a Plasticville church kit that I spent hours painting and then was moved around until it found a home. I tell you this layout has sort of arranged itself over the years. My one mistake was forgetting that I would get older and not want to crawl under the table for servicing things. My access hatches are small and tough to use. That would be a recommendation on new layouts. Put those access points in so they can be used easily. I know placing the table itself out in a room works great too. Just wish I had a little more room to do that. The layout is about 12 years in the making. It is sort of done but one never knows. I will have to share some photos and maybe that track plan if I can figure out how to post it. That CTT issue is long gone.
Train ON!
Jim K
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