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Post by dmkentt on Oct 30, 2024 16:36:43 GMT
Hi everyone,
I’m working on a project where I need to pull a long line of rolling stock with a couple of power-hungry engines, specifically the MTH 4-motor turbines from the 90s. Each engine requires just under 5 amps to get moving, and running two engines with around 50 pieces of rolling stock trips the protection circuit on my GW-180.
To increase the amperage to the track, I've learned that the only way to exceed 180W is by using a 360W Powermaster with dual 180W power bricks. Is this correct?
I purchased a Legacy 360W Powermaster and a Cab1L remote, but I found out that the remote won’t communicate with the Powermaster. I now understand that I need some kind of intermediary, but I’m unclear on my options.
If anyone has suggestions on how to set this up or recommendations for the right intermediary, I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m also open to returning the Cab1L if needed, so I’m looking for the best path forward.
Thanks in advance for any help!
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Post by steveoncattailcreek on Oct 30, 2024 17:22:53 GMT
First off, I run exclusively conventional, so if any of my comments are off-target or wrong, please disregard -- I'm way outside my area of experience.
With that said, ISTM you could just add a second transformer in parallel, as long as it is phased to match your existing CW-180. If you are running command control, voltage will need to be applied to the track constantly, so if you add a second transformer (properly phased, with any throttle left wide open), the power capacity of that second transformer should be added to that of your existing transformer, roughly speaking, and they should be able to share a load greater than either alone is rated for.
Again, there may be quirks to command control systems of which I am unaware, so I stand to be corrected if off target.
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Post by dmkentt on Oct 30, 2024 18:31:56 GMT
Thank you for the reply. I should clarify that I want to run these engines in conventional mode. They are protosound 1 engines and not compatible with command control.
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Post by superwarp1 on Oct 30, 2024 18:39:20 GMT
Hi everyone, I’m working on a project where I need to pull a long line of rolling stock with a couple of power-hungry engines, specifically the MTH 4-motor turbines from the 90s. Each engine requires just under 5 amps to get moving, and running two engines with around 50 pieces of rolling stock trips the protection circuit on my GW-180. DAMN, that's a power hungry trainTo increase the amperage to the track, I've learned that the only way to exceed 180W is by using a 360W Powermaster with dual 180W power bricks. Is this correct? YES,I purchased a Legacy 360W Powermaster and a Cab1L remote, but I found out that the remote won’t communicate with the Powermaster. I now understand that I need some kind of intermediary, but I’m unclear on my options. You need the Legacy 990 base, Cab1l base, or the new Base 3 to use your remote and connected to your powermaster. If anyone has suggestions on how to set this up or recommendations for the right intermediary, I’d greatly appreciate it. I’m also open to returning the Cab1L if needed, so I’m looking for the best path forward. I'm MartyE and others will chime in but there are tons of Youtube videos on all your questions. Thanks in advance for any help!
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Post by dmkentt on Oct 30, 2024 18:53:18 GMT
Thank you for your response.
Would another possible avenue be to return the cab1L remote and buy a TMCC command base and a CAB1 remote? That is looking like it could be the cheaper option. But does the TMCC command base communicate with the Legacy Powermaster 360?
There are two published manuals on the powermaster360 on the Lionel website. One of the manuals says it is compatible with the TMCC command base, but the other manual does not state it is compatible with the TMCC command base...
I have tried to watch some YouTube videos about this but being new to this I am getting lost in all the different components and I am trying to avoid buying something I do not need.
Thanks!
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Post by superwarp1 on Oct 30, 2024 19:26:11 GMT
Thank you for your response. Would another possible avenue be to return the cab1L remote and buy a TMCC command base and a CAB1 remote? That is looking like it could be the cheaper option. But does the TMCC command base communicate with the Legacy Powermaster 360? I have tried to watch some YouTube videos about this but being new to this I am getting lost in all the different components and I am trying to avoid buying something I do not need. Thanks! The Power master gets it's commands the same way engines do off the track signal, any of the Base will work TMCC, Cab1l, or legacy bases. Prices online are sky high for any of the out of production stuff, only the Base3 is being made.
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Post by trainman9 on Oct 31, 2024 18:30:10 GMT
Thank you for the reply. I should clarify that I want to run these engines in conventional mode. They are protosound 1 engines and not compatible with command control. Well, if you are content to run in conventional mode maybe you could just purchase an MTH Z4000. You will get the necessary power you need. There is an MTH Z4000 remote that you could look into although it’s just available on the secondary market. Returning the CAB1L remote and the Powermaster will get you about half way to the price of an MTH Z4000. Command control these days is unfortunately pretty expensive. Maybe prices will come down at some point in the future. Lastly, you could consider the Lionel ZW-L. It provides 640 watts to the track. Cost however is higher than the Z4000 at around $400.
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Post by dmkentt on Oct 31, 2024 19:06:29 GMT
@trainman
From my understanding the Z-4000 has two 180w channels that cannot be combined on a single loop of track. And my understanding is that the ZW-L has four 180w channels that also cannot be combined on a single loop.
Have I been misinformed?
It does sound like command control is the best way to run big power because you can simply connect as many phased power supplies to the track as you need. Unfortunately my engines are not command control.
I do have another question that I am having trouble finding an answer to in my research. Can two powermasters be connected to the same loop of track and controlled from the same command base?
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Post by trainman9 on Nov 1, 2024 15:17:21 GMT
First I would suggest you watch the You Tube video Mike Regan did on the ZW-L. It should answer most of your questions.
The ZW-L has built in powermasters that can be controlled in command mode. That would require a command system. The power can simply be used in conventional mode by just setting the voltage using the built in handles.
I paid $500 for mine but the lowest price I saw from several dealers at York was $750.
I think the ZW-L may be the best way to go given the cost of some of the other components. A full CAB1L system will cost you about $400 on the secondary market but since you run conventional it’s not really necessary.
Other considerations:
TPC 400’s
180 watt powerhouses
Some type of command system.
I think in the end your best bet is a ZW-L.
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Post by dmkentt on Nov 1, 2024 16:59:07 GMT
I watched the video as you suggested.
I push back with all do respect, what I am claiming is right in the ZW-L manual.
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For ease of operation, the ZW-L Transformer can be placed in single handle mode (see the procedure on pages 15 and 18). Four separate loops can then be powered-up at the same time.
When powering multiple track loops, always make sure insulating pins are used to insulate the center rails between connected loops. Failure to do so will result in excessive current which can damage locomotives.
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I called Lionel for clarification, about whether the risk of combining channels is only a risk to a locomotive or if its a risk to the power supply too. The individual at Lionel seemed a bit uncertain but said as a rule you don't combine outputs to a single loop of track because it can damage the locomotive and/or the power supply.
I understand how creating multiple track loops is the answer for most people who need more power because they are pulling long lines of illuminated rolling stock for example. Where my situation is different is that I am using two power hungry tandem locomotives that at any given time are going to be on the same loop. So I am confident that dividing the power among separate loops isn't the answer for my situation... I cannot find corroboration on-line or from calling Lionel that I can combine channels on any of their conventional style transformers to get more amperage to a single loop of track. They say don't do it.
Purely from a price perspective my best option may be to grab two of the outdated 135w power supplies (~50 a piece)
Legacy Powermaster 360w (150-ish)
TMCC Cab1 (150-ish)
I think that will give me about 14amps to a single loop. And would be compatible with a Base3 later on if I got into command control stuff..
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